It’s taken me a while, but I finally got ahold of a box of their “Compact Handgun” ammo in .380 ACP — Academy had it on their shelf, so I picked up a box. compare . And as much as it pains me to talk about it a I witnessed a “Wolf Gold” .380 half F.M.J.-half lead tip H.P. The Full-size handgun variety is for, you guessed it, guns with four and five-inch barrels. vs. Springfield . In an effort to offer a less expensive self-defense ammunition option, Federal created a new line of ammunition called Punch. Get the Shooting Illustrated Reloaded newsletter for at-a-glance access to industry news, gear, gun reviews, videos and more—delivered directly to your Inbox. The cold, hard real-world adult choice that has to be made when you NEED to take the shot to save a life is that you DO take your *best* shot – period. I’ve tested the Golden Saber before in .380, twice actually — once in Remington’s original loading, and once in a version from Underwood where they really amped up the velocity. If you’re going to carry a .380, carry two. The Underwood loading was a lot “hotter”, and pushed the bullet faster, and resulted in deeper penetration than the Remington load did. The preponderance of pocket pistols has persuaded some ammo manufacturers to re-evaluate their offerings and tailor their them to be more suitable for today’s guns. Why use them if you have a better option, primarily the Federal Premium Hydra Shoks and Fiocchi Extrema XTP that did so well in the initial test? ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. There’s no arguing that if you’re out to buy a .380 ACP, you’ve got your work cut out for you. I know, I know, “what if?” I get it. It’s never really a good idea to make a prediction, so — with that out of the way, let me go ahead and make a prediction…. That said, 95% of the time I carry the 938 or the XD-s in .45. And, given the world we are living in today, every dollar and cent saved matters. Some examples are: Hornady Critical Defense, Remington Ultimate Defense Compact Handgun, and Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel. Many do not entail even presenting the firearm. Neither did very well from the tiny 2.8″ barreled pistol that I used. Y’know, I can agree and disagree here. When I was working as a patrol officer, I responded to a shooting on a city street, where a physically disabled man had been attacked by another man. 10 MM.45 ACP. As opposed to relying on the 100% accuracy and discretion of the criminal killing you and everyone else present with one round each? I bought several different brands, bullet designs and bullet weights to see what my 238 likes the best and after I brought it home I noticed the two boxes of the above mentioned ammo are marked for full size handguns. While the context provided by the stated testing parameters in the “Ammo Quest” series do render it “technically correct”, there isn’t really any such thing as “over-penetration” in bullet performance. Prices vary from $200 to $700, some current full size handgun model may be a better choice to go. 1. penetration has already been identified and accepted as the PRIMARY wounding factor (the famous FBI study), and . Now, Remington has apparently reformulated the Golden Saber to make it more appropriate for shorter-barreled pistols. The product of relentless R&D and high-quality components – available in your favorite calibers. What predictions can be made with using one of these rounds in a 3.5″ barrel? Next to full size or even compact handguns, pocket pistols and snubbies are all pretty small and it might look like I’m splitting hairs by making this size comparison. A box of 20 has a suggested retail price of $26.99. Any bullet can inflict lethal damage but smaller rounds have a lower PK. Not quite to the desired 12″ depth, but deeper, and the bullet was huge (for a .380). Golden Saber BJHP" rounds today for my Kimber .380 micro pistol, and didn't notice until I got home that on the box it says "Full Size Handgun". Until 2020, the only .380 ACP load I’d found that would often penetrate to a depth of 12 inches — which is the FBI’s minimum penetration standard — was the 102-grain Remington Ultimate Defense Compact Handgun Golden Saber load. It’s a bit of word-parsing, but that’s the nature of the beast: I take a bit of exception to the term, “over-penetration”. So 380’s have enuf power to open-up like that and still penetrate 12″ ? I pocket carry my Nano sometimes and it’s no big deal. I’m just saying pick what works, in any of the already unlikely scenarios you may face, but don’t beat yourself and others up too much in the process. Given that, This Ammo was Tested by LuckyGunner View Results. For 2020, Federal released a new personal protection load for the .380 ACP called Hydra-Shok Deep. Carrying capacity is 8+1, so you can carry a little more in that regard. Many people immediately dismiss the .380 as not even worthy of discussion, and especially .380 from a pocket pistol. 4. last but not least, no ballistic-gell and/or denim testing can replicate 100% the final wounding performance of a particular bullet on a particular live target in a particular situation – ergo, hollowpoint “expansion” is NEVER 100% guaranteed, The Remington Ultimate Defense Compact Handgun load for the .380 Auto (shown here in the old packaging) is a top performer for this cartridge, but it is very velocity dependent. With Lehigh XP’s, or Hydra Shoks, or any Hornady XTP bullet, you can get a full 12″+ of penetration, including some expansion, through bare or denim-covered gel. Remington’s Ultimate Defense Compact 124. Why only two in bare? Prior to 2020 the Hydra-Shok Deep was available in 9 mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP, and tests with those rounds were indeed proof of concept. The bullet was a full metal jacket. The .380 pocket pistols also known as mouse guns or “get off me” guns can be a good choice for personal defense. compare . This compact handgun gets full-length slide rails and a steel locking block insert to keep things tight and vibration free. I think he’s asking to much from a 2+” barrel .380 pocket gun, or shooting some real fat bad guys. They actually have introduced two revised versions of Golden Saber; there’s “Remington Ultimate Defense” and also “Remington Ultimate Defense — Compact Handgun” . Which is kind of fantastic. There’s a difference. All bullets have a “velocity window” within which they work best; fire the bullet slower than its minimum necessary velocity and it’ll fail to expand. So, my prediction is: using this load in a 3.5″ barrel would probably result in a velocity increase somewhere in the neighborhood of what those Underwood bullets were like (from the shorter barrel). Facing In; Back-to-Back ; Facing Up; Back View; Choose View Facing In Back-to-Back Facing Up Back View *Buying ammo from LuckyGunner.com helps support HandgunHero. Paaleezz, if it didn’t open-up like that it would Im sure. Over the years I’ve tested lots of .380 ACP ammunition in various test mediums like 10-percent ordnance gelatin and Clear Ballistics. That’s a good thing, because as I’m finding in my Ammo Quest series, ammo that works great from a full-sized pistol doesn’t always work as well from a pocket pistol (wow, major revelation there, right?) newsletter for at-a-glance access to industry news, gear, gun reviews, videos and more—delivered directly to your Inbox. As the name suggests, the purpose of this new bullet design was to increase penetration depth. round especially if its a .380? The 380 has its place and uses. The primary difference is that the center post is now cone rather than cylindrically shaped. Buy Remington Ultimate Defense Compact Handgun 380 Auto 102 grain BJHP ammo in bulk 20 rounds online at BlackCreekAmmo.com - the best price on 380 ACP ammunition. The goal with Punch ammo was to create loads for the most common self-defense cartridges that, while not meeting all of the FBI barrier testing standards, would still perform well for the armed citizen. I don’t expect anything from my Sig P238 380 but a good sting if it hits flesh. But I wasn’t so willing to dismiss it — I set out to test every round I could get my hands on, to find out IF it was possible, IF a pocket .380 could meet the established standards for bullet performance. Quick View. Statistically, there is FAR more collateral damage from MISSES than from “over-penetration” of hits-on-target – even in police shootings (some would say ‘especially’ in police shootings). Really? The Remington line of Personal Defense ammunition is engineered to help you stop threats when everything depends on it. The 380 Auto is also known as the 9mm Kurz (Kurz being the German word for short), 9 x 17, 9mm Corto, 9mm Court, 9mm Browning, 9mm Browning Short, 9mm Browning Court, … But the bullet is very velocity dependent and out of some short barrel .380s it will not reach that 850-fps benchmark. … FN designated the .380 Auto as the 9mm Browning Short. Enough of a difference that, every time I pick up that little TCP, I just wish it had just a little more predictable ballistic performance so that I could fully trust it as a full-time main weapon. These loads utilize a re-engineered Golden Saber bullet and will be available in .380 ACP, 9mm, .38 Special, .40 S&W and .45 ACP. ALL handguns suck compared to long guns in terms of wound-ballistic performance (same study), and Self-defense shootings by armed citizens rarely necessitate the penetration of intermediate barriers like steel, auto glass, and wall board. Saturday, October 3, 2020. Or maybe you choke under pressure, and either live or die with “woulda-coulda-shoulda”. Oh well. …Slip a Taurus TCP or a Ruger LCP in your front pocket. However, ammo used by armed citizens routinely needs to defeat heavy clothing and still expand to around 1.5 times its original diameter and deliver decent penetration. The 3-dot sights are an easy upgrade. I am. Of course, when you look at the price of life — and life insurance — an additional 55 cents per round just does not seem like all that much money. The man is giving free information, backed up by scientific facts and repeatable experiments. I just don’t get this weigh issue especially when are talking about ounces. More importantly, with impact velocities ranging from 800 to 848 fps, the bullet consistently penetrated to 12.5 inches and deformed with an average frontal diameter of 0.510 inch. Buckshot Ultimate Defense Shotshell These rounds deliver dense, devastating patterns and massive knockdown power when the stakes are at their highest. As it is, I put up with the bigger size and weight of the 938 because it is much more powerful. If you think I’m asking “too much” from a 2.8″ pocket .380, then — I agree with you. And, this performance is available in a 20-round box with a suggested retail price of only $15.99. Also chambered in 9mm, the M&P series offers sizes ranging from full-size to the new sub-compact model. “Expansion” is ultimately a “nice-to-have”, but it CANNOT be *depended* on, EVER, especially not for the purpose of “reliably” reducing “over-penetration” – any bullet can sometimes pass through – or not – to satisfy the WORST-case, right? That’s the general state of things. It’s okay, and with the right ammo it may serve you well, but the 9mm is just so much more powerful…. Go to previous image Go to next image. Better yet, the bullet seemed to be barrier blind, at least with regard to several layers of denim. Those looking for reliable self-defense loads for the .380 ACP now have two new options from Federal. Whether it’s match-grade precision or the most effective self-defense loads ever developed, Remington handgun ammunition makes the cartridge to match. 9 MM. But when I got to the denim, I found that the more things change, the more they stay the same — this new version of the Golden Saber performed exactly the same way that the older version did — it plugged up, failed to expand, and overpenetrated. it therefore follows that in an immediate life-or-death situation, one would desire all the penetration that their .380 cartridge – or any handgun cartridge, really – can possibly deliver. From bullets specially designed for controlled expansion and optimal energy transfer, to waterproofing and powders treated to reduce muzzle flash, its reliable stopping power stands ready for when you need it most. Because of the limited performance of the .380 cartridge in general, I usually relegate it to BUG status. It’s taken me a while, but I finally got ahold of a box of their “Compact Handgun” ammo in .380 ACP — Academy had it on their shelf, so I picked up a box. This 9mm Luger ammunition from Remington's Ultimate Defense series is optimized for compact handguns such as the Kahr CW9, Ruger LC9, SIG P938, and Glock 43. The 380 EZ solves this problem, by putting the .380 round in the same size of pistol as the standard M&P Shield, one of the best and most popular carry guns on the market. Designed with the concealed carry permit holder in mind, this compact handgun ammo delivers big gun terminal … I totally agree that the .380 is ballistically challenged and the 9mm is a vastly superior cartridge. Now, back to this load — if 9″ of penetration with expansion is what you’re looking for, then this round delivers. This bullet weighs the same, looks the same, and the expanded bullet looks the same, but as near as I can tell Remington has redesigned it so that it will open up at slower velocities. The only problem with that is STB 410 has found a couple of .380 JHP rounds that do meet the FBI minimum penetration standards AND expand beautifully. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. OH man you missed a chance here. Now maybe I don’t think that it is a big deal because I normally carry either a Hi Power or a 1911 so the Nano doesn’t feel particularly heavy. Which means that I would guess (and this is only a guess) that we would see somewhat deeper penetration than my testing here reavealed. Then replace it with a Sig P938. Just cant, dont expect major caliber damages from it. It was added to the Colt Pocket Automatic in 1908 and introduced in Europe by FN in 1912. It fires modified brass-jacketed hollow point bullets similar to those used in Remington's popular Golden Sabre series that expand reliably even at the lower velocities produced by shorter-barreled pistols. Remington UMC, 9mm Luger, FMC, 115 Grain, 350. These are marginal against bare gelatin and don’t expand against denim. But, given the frailty of the victim, it was about all the handgun he could manage, and, it saved his life. I am not a big guy just 5’9″ 180. This might be the best expanding bullet now offered for self-defense use for the .380 ACP. My next handgun will probably be a 9mm. Remington in diving into the micro pistol market with the release of the RM380. That’s one reason I was really happy with the Lehigh XP performance; it delivered consistent excellent penetration with zero prospects for a clogged hollowpoint or a failure-to-expand. put a hole in someones head the size of a golf ball, and needless to say that person died within a few minutes. The Hydra-Shok Deep bullet is a modified version of the famous Hydra-Shok bullet. Now Remington is offering an updated version of their venerable Golden Saber bullet, called “Remington Ultimate Defense — Compact Handgun.”  They actually have introduced two revised versions of Golden Saber; there’s “Remington Ultimate Defense” and also “Remington Ultimate Defense — Compact Handgun” . I mention this because it addresses the question of whether the .380 ACP can be successfully used as a self-defense handgun. Because when I saw the penetration achieved, I knew there was little point in continuing with the bare shots — even if the rest had been perfect, I was going to have to rule this ammo out of contention. Sig Sauer P365 vs Sig Sauer P365 XL . P365 . Put handguns head to head to compare size, weight, capacity, and more. However, this in no way provides evidence that the .380 ACP or full metal jacket ammunition is the best choice for personal protection. I think he’s full of it whats wrong w/9″ of penetration in a S.D. So we’ve seen Speer offering “Short Barrel” versions of their Gold Dots, and Hornady specifically tailored Critical Defense to perform better from short-barrel pistols. Remington Ultimate Defense Compact Handgun is as the name implies specifically designed for compact handguns that are most commonly carried by concealed carry permit holders. I don’t see much point for the .380 – it’s consistently marginal in all but the Precision One and Hydra-Shok loadings. by Richard Mann - Not in any handgun cartridge and certainly not in a “mouse gun” cartridge. Barrel length is 3.675 inches, so you get accuracy and better performance from ammunition. Doesn’t do as much damage as a 9mm, doesn’t expand as big as a 9mm, but the most important factor is to achieve sufficient penetration, and the .380 pocket pistols can definitely do that. But the TCP… man, it’s sooooooooo convenient. XD-M® Elite Handguns. I’ve even heard of people who chose not to keep a gun in the home because of concerns about “over-penetration” if they had to shoot somebody. But that was the whole point of why I started the Ammo Quest — to see if any ammo would make a pocket .380 able to meet the FBI and IWBA ammunition standards. I wouldn’t sell them to short. Women On Target® Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Ambassadors, NRA Outstanding Achievement Youth Award Presented by Brownells, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, 7 Best New Cartridges for Long-Range Precision, The Best Personal Defense Strategies for Civil Unrest, Review: CrossBreed Hybrid ST2 IWB Holster, © 2021 National Rifle Association of America. Let’s always keep in mind that the vast majority of successful DGUs do not involve doing major damage to an assailant, or even discharging the firearm at all. It’s a tall task. While the .380 is certainly better than a sharp stick, I’m still pretty happy with my .40 that has double the energy and much better performance. But, if you’re looking for good concealment carry with a decent bite, then the .380 caliber is a good choice to consider. The disabled person shot the attacker with a .380, and the attacker was found dead on the scene; he succumbed to a single .380 ACP gunshot wound to the torso. I tested the new Hydra-Shok Deep .380 ACP load out of a Diamondback DB380 and it delivered an average muzzle velocity of 839 fps. At the time of this test, there was no Compact Handgun version of the .38 Special +P load on the market. Privacy Policy   •   Contact Us   •   Warnings   •   FAQs   •  © 2021 National Rifle Association of America. Its ready when you need to defend whats most precious. You got a lot more slop in a 50S&W than a 22LR. XD-S Mod.2® OSP™ Handguns. These loads are optimized to deliver all of the performance of standard defense loads out of full size pistols but in smaller frame guns. Remington has engineered Ultimate Defense to provide you with optimal penetration and When this load achieves a muzzle velocity of at least 850 fps it will penetrate to a depth of about 13 inches and deform with a frontal diameter of about 0.59 inch. Someone please do a real body cavity test on any of the ANTIFA/BLM protestors and get back with us with the results!!!! HANDGUN AMMUNITION. If I could, however, somehow transform my .380 into .450 Bushmaster at the instant that I need to pull the trigger, I can’t think of anything but the most hideously-contrived scenario where that wouldn’t be desirable. For full-size handguns, relaible expansion shouldn’t be an issue. In my testing of the conventional Golden Sabers, I tried two loads: Remington’s own, and also one from Underwood. That is not the standard I was testing to, but I tried to make it clear in this video and every video that I am testing to a particular standard and, since I’ve already found other rounds that will meet and exceed that standard, then any particular ammo test will be graded harshly if it fails to meet that standard. ShootingTheBull410: Remington Ultimate Defense-Compact Handgun .380, Customers and Staff Shot Man Who Opened Fire in Metairie, LA Gun Store, BREAKING: 3 Dead, 2 Wounded in Shooting at Metairie, Louisiana Gun Store, 12-year-old Boy Shoots Home Invader Who Shot His Grandmother. Ultimate Defense Full-Sized Handgun ammo uses a Golden Saber BJHP bullet which expands and penetrates for massive knockdown power. It makes the .380, especially from the little pocket pistols, a more viable choice. Shot placement is the key variable but good shot placement is a function of caliber. And the .380 isn’t bad, it’s just not on par with the “major” calibers. The Shooting Wire’s Rich Grassi had a chance to shoot some of the new ammo, which he referred to as “Ultimate Defense – Compact Handgun.” Â Remington has rebranded the “Ultimate Defense Home Defense” line of ammo as simply “Ultimate Defense.” Â So, Ultimate Defense – Compact Handgun makes sense. © COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. I bring this up primarily because the term “over-penetration” is too-often used in ANOTHER context: This context has been generated by a select breed of armchair tacticians who perpetuate the fallacious concept that somebody who is a split-second away from somebody being DEAD is actually going to have time to “verify” what lies behind the assailant and actually *further risk life* in taking time to consider the almost-completely unforeseeable consequences of “over-penetration”. Or maybe you choke under pressure, and especially.380 from a 2+ ”.380. Found that every one of the performance of standard Defense loads out of full pistols... 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